‍[00:02] Jennifer: Hi everyone, thanks for listening to The Founder Spirit podcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Wu. In this podcast series, I interview exceptional individuals from all over the world with the founder spirit, ranging from social entrepreneurs, tech founders, to philanthropists, elite athletes and more. Together, we'll uncover not only how they managed to succeed in facing multiple challenges, but also who they are as people and their human story. 

“Art should be of service to people and it should help people see the world in a new way and to share a collective and unifying experience.”

“We have predatory algorithms that are targeting us based on our personal data. What we need to do is we need to start learning about how we can achieve data sovereignty, controlling our own data.”

“The heart signatures, the heartbeat, is a very important protocol that I'm collaborating with for an art installation called HeartSpace, but it's fascinating to me because this is the one biometric that AI cannot hack.”

Joining us today is the futurist Krista Kim, an ultra-contemporary artist known for her work exploring the concept of digital consciousness. She creates digital art as a form of meditative experience and a pursuit of harmony between humanity and technology. 

Known as the “Digital Rothko”, Krista’s work invites us into a world where light, sound, color, and gradient become tools for healing, elevating human consciousness, and creating new spaces for reflection in both virtual and physical realms. 

I had the pleasure of meeting Krista, where she led a guided meditation in front of her artwork “Continuum”, a sound and light installation promoting mental wellness previously featured in Time Square. She is not only a visionary artist, but also a strong, loyal, kind-hearted woman. And those are the people that we like to have on the show!

Just how does Krista harness the power of consciousness and technology to create healing and sublime experiences in the metaverse? Well, let’s talk to her & find out.

Hello Krista, welcome to the Founders Spirit podcast. Thank you for joining us today. We're so grateful to have you. Thank you for taking the time.

[02:42] Krista Kim: As am I. Thank you so much for the lovely introduction, Jennifer. It's so lovely to be here.

[02:46] Jennifer: Krista, growing up in Toronto, what were some of the key influences in your life?

[02:53] Krista: Well, I had a very, very unconventional upbringing. 

My father is a Supreme Grandmaster of Taekwondo. He's a pioneer of martial arts in Canada. And in the 1970s, he immigrated from South Korea and his passion has always been martial arts and healing - he's an acupuncturist as well. 

So he brought both of those skill sets to Canada. And so you could imagine our upbringing was very much focused on wellbeing, on meditation, on mind and body connection, overcoming physical and mental obstacles and learning how to really maximize your own potential. And that was what my father really modeled for us. 

And my mother is a homemaker and she's very creative herself. She's very much into art and cuisine. She's now teaching vegetarian Korean cuisine in Toronto. So both of my parents are very creative and independent thinkers and very unique individuals. (chuckles)

[03:55] Jennifer: Well, so as you mentioned that your dad is a Supreme Taekwondo Grandmaster. I mean, it sounds really impressive just saying that “Supreme Taekwondo Grandmaster.” 

And you know, it's interesting about martial arts, because martial art these days is taught as a sport, but actually the highest realm of martial art, and this is probably why your dad is the grandmaster, is actually spiritual - so combining the physical with the philosophical. 

And I always recall Bruce Lee, he studied philosophy. A lot of people don't know that, but he studied philosophy. And he had this famous quote.

[04:35] Krista: And he wrote books.

[04:36] Jennifer: Yes, he wrote books, yeah. And he had this famous quote of “be water, my friend.” So it's like his philosophy, not just in martial arts, but also in life about adaptability and flexibility, so...

[04:51] Krista: Yes, and the highest form of intelligence is adaptability. He's a legend.

Indeed, martial arts is not only a physical sport, it really is tying in the mental, spiritual, and the physical as one. And I can truly testify to that because of the superhuman feats that you can achieve physically. 

For example, I myself, when I had to test for my higher belts, I had to break wood. And so with my foot or with my hand and with a kick or a punch. And you don't know that you can do that. You think you see the piece of wood as a blocker, right, as an obstacle. 

But in your mind, you're training your mind to overcome it, to see your hand go through the wood is what my father would say - visualize your hand through the wood and or your foot through the wood - visualize first in your mind. You always have to meditate and become calm before you execute. You open your eyes and you're ready.

After the visualization when your mind and body are connected, and then you execute and you do it. It's amazing what the mind can be trained to do and every high-level athlete visualizes before competitions, before they execute. Everyone, you can see that across the board. 

I saw my father, for example, he would do some really, really cool things. (chuckles) I took (it) for granted when I was a kid, I thought it was, this is my dad, you know. He was on Breakfast Television in Toronto and it's a national TV show. 

And in the morning, I think it was 5.30 AM in fact, he was basically on the show. He went there in his full tobok, his uniform, and he had a samurai sword that he owns and he brought it with him and a big watermelon. 

And what he did was he had the hostess of the show lie on a table and she had the watermelon placed over her stomach. He blindfolded himself. He raised his sword, blindfolded and chopped it into three pieces on her stomach, live on TV. 

He got a lot of enrollment in our Taekwondo school, in family business from that show. And he's always been able to demonstrate incredible feats of physical strength and acumen. And I look lovingly at it today, I reminisce and I feel so privileged to have had a high performance martial artist as a mentor in my life and that's such an amazing blessing.

[07:23] Jennifer: I heard that story previously and I love you for telling it on the podcast. 

Krista, despite being a super creative kid and being mentored by your parents, especially your dad as a Taekwondo (Supreme) Grandmaster, your parents wanted you to follow a more stable career and you ended up studying political science at university and you started your career in journalism while living in Asia.

Do you recall if there was a defining moment when you knew that art was your true path?

[07:58] Krista: Absolutely. You know, I love my parents for being so protective and concerned with my future and it's such an uncertain path as an artist. 

We don't know any professional artists around us. And so I decided to study political science because I like to write in English - actually it was my best subject in high school. And so it's a natural thing. And I also love philosophy like my dad, we have that in common. We love philosophy. 

And what I loved was political philosophy. And so that really stimulated my artistic brain and gave me a nice foundation for understanding the world as it is, like why do we have democracy? Why is there communism? Or Diderot, Voltaire, Plato, Socrates, you know, all the great thinkers. And how does that come into contact with how we live today? The pen is mightier than the sword. 

And I really was heavily influenced by Marshall McLuhan, who is also on the alma mater of University of Toronto. And I studied at University of Toronto. And I think that his teachings, understanding (of the) media are so prophetic and so relevant for today's age where we're experiencing extreme disruption. So the philosophical foundation is so important to me - it's very artistic as well. So I had my fix at school for that. 

And then when I moved to Korea, I really wanted to discover the world. I wanted to get out of Toronto and really live in a foreign place. I’ve always been like a gypsy wanting to explore and I'm so creative. I'm an experienced junkie, right? I need to absorb new experiences. 

And I lived in Seoul between 2000 to 2005. And when I first arrived, I was an English teacher from my family friends’ English Academy, which is amazing. It was so cute with the kids and they loved me. But then after that, I decided to do some marketing events like PR events. And that was a lot of fun too.

But then I decided to apply for a job at the Korea Herald newspaper. I'm a culture writer and the journalism experience I had beforehand was that I actually used to co-host a local TV show like a municipal TV show in Canada when I was in high school. And it was a lot of fun. It was called Canadian Spectrum and I used to love interviewing people and having amazing conversations about culture and multiculturalism. 

So when I was in Korea, I really thought, well, I'm going to interview people and I had such good rapport. I was a culture writer and it was the first time there was a culture writer for the Korea Herald newspaper. It was always business and very hardcore business. 

And so it was lovely because at the time in 2000, like 2002, there was so much K-drama. The K-wave is called Hallyu was a new phenomenon. And movies like Siri and Oldboy were causing a huge fan base around the world and a lot of recognition.

So I recognize this, especially since Korea was really investing a lot of money into culture at the time. I saw that there was a real trend heading upward for Korean content. And it was so amazing to interview actors and directors and singers, because K-pop was just starting to get noticed. 

It was such a great time. I can't believe it was 20 years ago. What really triggered me when I was with them was, I want to be you. They loved me as a journalist because I was so enthusiastic and I was so inspired by them because I'm an artist as well. And then I actually secretly wanted to be in their place. I really love what they're doing, and I, I wish I could do that and be an artist. 

Then finally I married my ex-husband and we moved to Japan in 2005 to 2008 for three and a half years. And we lived right beside the American embassy in Akasaka, Ichome. And it was a dream because everyday was an adventure. 

Japan to me was so unique, so foreign. It was so amazing and eye-opening because it's so creative. And in Japan, the kaizen philosophy of mastering your art, every day improving. There's so much mastery and respect for creativity and art there. I just couldn't help myself but become an artist there.

It was at Kyoto, at the Ryoanji temple, the first time I encountered this magnificent city, which to me is like the living metaverse. I think it's a gift to the world, I love it. This place really, I understood it because I understood how mastery meets aesthetics and design. Mastery not in the sense of not just the executional skills, but the spiritual mastery, the mastery of one's mind and higher levels of consciousness that creates beauty in every aspect of their lives, every aspect. 

And so when I went to the Ryoanji Temple Garden, which is the most iconic garden, 500 years old. And it was the first time I encountered a real zen garden. And there were other people just sitting there and just really appreciating the moment and the connection to this place. 

I sat with them and I sat there and 20 minutes goes by, and I had a huge epiphany like these zen monks 500 years ago, they created an immersive experience that is of service to humanity and elevates others' consciousness, just like how the martial arts is meant to be a martial art of service to elevate human consciousness. I understood that from the zen garden. 

I saw that mirror and I was like, oh my gosh, I want to do this - I want to be a differential artist for zen, carrying on this principle and this tradition into other mediums. So that's when I really was like, okay, we have to paint, I have to learn everything about Japanese painting, about the pigments. 

I went and I bought art supplies. I hired an art teacher. I was painting every day and I was manic about it and so obsessed. But I went to museums, I was studying and my favorite artist was Toko Shinoda. 

She has this beautiful, huge cinnabar artwork. She's one of the contemporary painters of the same time as modern Impressionists in America like Peggy Guggenheim, and she was really part of that generation. She lived to be about 97. And she's a huge inspiration to me because I know she meditates, and she's meditating or she's channeling energy while she's painting.

So I was so inspired, I just decided, okay, I have to study. I have to find my way, figure out how I'm gonna do it. But I really wanna walk on this journey and it started in Japan. I'm really thankful for that. Kyoto is a very special place for me.

[14:47] Jennifer: It is a very, very special place. 

Well, it's interesting because looking at your art style, I could see that it's very much influenced. It has a very minimalistic approach and it's the reflection, as you said, almost like the inner stillness that you have inside of you.

[15:07] Krista: I created those digital pieces because in Singapore, after moving from Japan to Singapore 2010, I was going through this personal crisis. I didn't know who I was because I was really young when I married and I didn't know who I was. And the marriage was falling apart and I really had to find myself. I wasn't happy. I was depressed and anxious and my two children are very, very young. 

And so I began to heavily meditate. I learned transcendental meditation. Before I was just doing zen meditation, just like clear your mind, how I was taught by my dad. But TM (transcendental meditation) really elevated my meditation practice. 

When I first learned my mantra, it just sent tears streaming down my face. I felt so much relief and comfort, a level of comfort with myself that I never felt before. And I really was finding myself. And so I was healing as well, right? Because there was a lot of toxicity and stuff. So I really needed that solace and to heal. And it built so much compassion and love. It was really amazing. 

And so through that practice, I began, I was actually enrolled in the Masters of Fine Art program in Singapore. And I entered the program as a painter, but then I graduated as a digital artist. And it was because of my engagement with meditation, and really getting that inspiration through the meditation practice, creating my zen landscapes, the color scapes on my screen, which were healing to me. 

I was self-medicating. And I thought, these colors and these compositions are healing to me and brings me into a state of zen, then it must be doing it for others. So that's where it really started to make sense for me.

[17:04] Jennifer: Can we rewind a little bit? Because I'm quite curious about Transcendental Meditation. I understand it's a mantra meditation. I was wondering who had introduced you to it and how does it work and how does it differ from other forms of meditation?

[17:21] Krista: Well, I remember having a conversation with my sister Grace, my younger sister Grace was visiting me at the time in Singapore. I told her about all the issues and she said, go back to meditation, meditate. Like we grew up learning, just meditate. 

And I'm like, I was meditating, but I'm like, you know what? I think I've got to do more. I need to learn a new modality. I think there's more to this. Because I was also listening to see healing sound frequencies and I understood that the vibrations and sounds are really helping me sleep or focus when I painted. 

So I did some research online. And I found Transcendental Meditation. I found a teacher in Singapore and I immediately enrolled myself and my ex-husband into the program. And it was so, ever since then, I have never stopped. I've done it every day, religiously.

Because the mantra is amazing - it's magic. It's the vibration of the thought of an ancient Vedic Sanskrit word. We don't know the meaning of it. That's irrelevant. It's just the vibration of the thought that sends your mind into deep deep states of consciousness and connection to, I believe it's the unified, it is the unified energy field. That's what we call it. And I believe it's the creator. I believe it's everything, right? That's everything. That's God. 

So for me, it's like a daily prayer and I feel blessed to be connected to God every day. So my prayer is through with my TM and just my life has changed so amazingly since then.

[18:52] Jennifer: That's amazing. I've been studying the Bhagavad Gita now for about a year and a half. I'm still a beginner. They have this very simple chant, and then you just repeat 108 times.

There's something in the repetition of these sounds in Sanskrit that raises, apparently they say Sanskrit is supposed to be the language that has the highest vibration. And just repeating these mantras, I find it's very cleansing.

I don't know how you do it, how short or how long your mantra is, but like for me, because I'm a beginner, I find I'll say the mantra for 5-10 minutes and then my mind just wanders. And then I'm thinking about something else and I really have to force myself to bring myself back to repeating the mantra. So I was wondering if you had some tips. I was wondering how long it took you to get into that expanded state of consciousness. 

Now I did once a month ago, get into an expanded state of consciousness just by repeating that mantra. Very often I find myself very distracted, like I'll repeat the mantra for five to 10 minutes and then my mind starts to wonder, like, how do you...

[20:13] Krista: You're ready for TM. You should really try it. I think you really like it. 

My experience with TM, it's a four-syllable word and I think it. And as I think it, literally there is a physiological response. My eyes roll up to the top of my head automatically, involuntary, and my extremities start to go numb. My breathing slows down to the point where I'm hardly breathing. 

And I feel tingling in my body, the energy. I feel like I'm getting charged like an iPhone. (chuckles) It's amazing. And here's the thing you say the mantra and you're going deeper. You're creating a bubble and you're sinking deeper. And the more you say it, the deeper you go into the unified energy field.

So if you have a thought, you don't fight it, you're like, okay, you let it be. And then you just repeat the mantra again and it just brings you deeper until you have no more thoughts anymore. It's just depths and it's just bliss.

[21:18] Jennifer: And how many hours do you meditate?

[21:21] Krista: It's only 20 minutes in the morning and then 20 minutes in the afternoon. Sometimes I skip the afternoon because the kids get in the way, but I have to have my 20 minutes. Your eyes get clear. The colors are clear. Your hearing, your senses, it's like a power wash. It's really amazing. And you feel so calm. I don't know, it's magic. 

You're even-keeled for the whole day. There are no highs and lows. You're just, you're good. Good things happen to you - you're not freaking out. Bad things happen - you're not freaking out. You're just really chill and it's amazing. The more you do it as well, the expansiveness of your consciousness grows, and as a creator or in doing anything in life, really, it's really amazing.

[22:04] Jennifer: I’ll have to try it, but I guess I'll need to have a teacher then.

[22:06] Krista: Yeah, you just have to go to tm.org and find a teacher and you learn it and you have it for life. And you can go in for refreshers, you know, just to make sure you're but I've never had to do that. 

And I'm now at the advanced stage. And I'm really interested in going into the most advanced stage now where you go one hour into meditation. I could do that, you know.

[22:31] Jennifer: So going a little bit further ahead, you had mentioned that before getting into LaSalle, you were a painter. And so I'm curious what inspired you to get into digital art as a medium?

[22:42] Krista: So then my political science brain kicked in and the whole Marshall McLuhan influence came in and I bought this (phone) in 2010, my first one. So I've been using it for a couple of years while I was in the program and I was always WhatsApping and doing Instagram especially. 

I was really observing Instagram and I didn't like it. I have this love-hate relationship with Instagram because you have to be out there and showing what you do as a business. At the same time, I didn't like the sociopathic, narcissistic, very shallow, you know, it was just toxic. 

And I knew for the first time that our collective global culture was being dictated by algorithms and commercial interests, and not from philosophy, humanities, religion, or love. And that would be a crisis. I knew that artists are the canary in the mine, I also know the artists are the innovators of culture.  

And I felt that I was very, very compelled to write a manifesto in 2014 upon graduating because being in an arts program at that.. the post-secondary level, it's very traditional. There are very few digital practitioners, now there are, but back in the day, there was no one. 

And I had to go through like three different supervisors until I finally was matched with a great supervisor, Yurik Lau, who shout out to Yurik. He's an incredible video artist and he just understood the medium of digital. 

And so it was a real challenge. It was a real challenge because I had to teach myself, but it was fun as well because it was just by happenstance and mistakes and experimentation that I created my artistic DNA and that's exactly how you're supposed to do that as an art. 

You're supposed to fumble and fail and create a lot of crap until one day you're like Eureka! Like oh, I have this incredible piece in front of me and that piece I displayed in the graduation show I created the very first immersive meditative digital art installation for my graduation show. 

That was the first in the world. Everyone was like, what is this? They didn't understand it. And I love that. I'm always ahead of my time, but it was nice to see people like it and also confused. And what was nice was staff, staff from the school during the graduation show… I had this, a separate space set up with a Bang & Olufsen speaker, you know, the beautiful circular speaker and the most state of the art Samsung screen, 83 inches, newly launched. They let me use it because I contacted the company. 

We had beautiful, beautiful speaker, very chic projectors showing other artworks on display. So it was really the person that had the healing sound frequency music playing in there. You go in there, you're just like the zen moment, like Ryoanji Temple Garden - that's the same effect I wanted to capture. And staff members would go down there in the middle of the day, just to chill, like you go to a zen garden just to chill, just to get refreshed. Right?

So I loved that. And I was like, oh my God, there's something here. And I remember one of my supervisors, Ian Kwan, who's a great artist as well, Singaporean-based, he said, hey, Krista, why don't you do some more motion in the projection? Why don't you make videos? I'm like, I don't know. was kind of like, hmm, I kind of like the stills, but you know what I mean? I experimented after that. 

And lo and behold, now Continuum, which is the video version of that early work, was featured in Times Square. And I created the biggest meditative digital art experience on earth, the first. And it was such an incredible, amazing learning experience for me, because I visualized that.

I did, because I created a deck, I created the proposal, which I submitted to Times Square Arts, which is the curator for the monthly programming at Times Square. I submitted that in 2017-2018, and then COVID hit us. 

And then it was immediately after the tail end of COVID, November of 2021, I was contacted by Gene Cooney, the curator, who said, you know what, please come and let's do February 2022. And I'm like, yes, I'm ready. 

We got my team together, we executed it. It was amazing standing there and people were like, like there are people just standing there and it was so nice. It's the middle of February too. Like who wants to be in Time Square? It's freaking cold, you know.

[27:24] Jennifer: At midnight.

[27:26] Krista: At midnight, and it's Time Square, like who wants to do a Time Square, right? But people came, people came. And it was just like a movement, it was like they understood, like shut off all the noise, just give us peace and serenity and beauty. 

And people responded to it. The TikTok influencers were amazing. one woman who's a journalist, I forget which one, she did a viral TikTok about Continuum at Time Square, it reached like almost a million people.

And they were all young people were saying, my God, I wish we could do this every day. And people are emotionally like, why is this making me cry? It's like, we were showing you care about people, about humanity, if you do something like that. 

And that's what a lot of marketing people loved about it too. It's like, wow, we can use these moments to create a message of giving back, creating a community and beautiful experiences of wellness, which is what we need right now. It doesn't have to be like a hard-sell all the time. It could be something that's more like, let's communicate an ethos through experiences. 

So wow, you know, a funny story, Coca-Cola screen didn't participate and they never have for the 10 years that Times Square Arts has been operating, they always opted out. Times Square Arts has a lot of work cut out for them, they reach out to every single vendor every month for every new artwork and they have (to) opt in or opt out, and all the vendors are different.

And that my particular installation attracted everyone - everyone participated. That's Coca-Cola. So on TikTok, they were called up because they had such a huge…

[29:02] Jennifer: Yeah, I saw that. I saw that.

[29:03] Krista: And they were like, Coca-Cola, they don't care about us. And then the marketing people from Coca-Cola were like, they saw this, like, get us into the program right away. And Gene was like so proud. She was like, that was a great, great job.

[29:18] Jennifer: That's incredible because it was also at the height of the pandemic, right? So that was February 2022 and everybody was still just coming out of the lockdown. And New York had such a huge, huge, tight lockdown.

[29:33] Krista: Looking back, wow, what we've all collectively gone through at that period, but now what I can see is that people are very, very conscious about mental health and wellbeing and longevity and life extension because of that experience collectively. And it's undeniable that more and more people want to meditate and (are) open to it. 

Because let me tell you, back in 2012, people were like, yeah, yeah, whatever, this is ridiculous, right? And now I just gave guided meditation for 500 people for a charity gala for children for New York and everybody was into it. And I did it with Continuum and it was so lovely and lovely that I did that in Davos as well when you participated in it. 

Just the opportunity to share that experience and it's spreading. It's something that people collectively want. So I'm delivering as much as I can.

[30:23] Jennifer: It's beautiful. And actually, Krista, you have this beautiful voice and your sister would, you know, attest to that, obviously. And she thought, you know, if you're not an artist, you would be a singer.

The sound of your voice is very soothing, and I can attest to that because I was there and I remember coming up to you and I said, how many years have you been guiding meditation? You're really good. You're like, this is my first one. (chuckles)

[30:50] Krista: But you know what? I led Taekwondo class and my father led meditations every day. So this is in my family. I learned this skill every day. It's so funny how it comes full circle. I have to tell you about that as well. I haven't mentioned it, you’ll love it. (chuckles)

[31:09] Jennifer: You have the perfect voice for guiding meditation, by the way, so you should do more of that. (chuckles)

[31:12] Krista: I am, I’m encouraged and the wonderful feedback of people has been very encouraging and I want to do more. I'm going to do much more actually.

[31:22] Jennifer: Yeah, maybe mix it into the sound installation of your art piece as well.

[31:27] Krista: I've actually done that - will send you the video for that. You can watch it on YouTube.

[31:37] Jennifer: Krista, I know you set up Krista Kim Studio upon graduation in 2014. I was wondering what (it was) like in the early days? Because I’d imagine it must have been difficult for you because also you were a single mother with two small kids at the time. And starting out as (an) artist is never easy.

[31:53] Krista: You know, my ex-husband took on a lot of the child-caring role during that time because I was traveling to New York all the time. I got a studio in Brooklyn, in Greenpoint, and I just started to market my work as much as possible. I had a few collectors, I did shows, I went to art fairs, I was hustling. I was hustling in New York. It was hard - it was really, really hard. 

The first few years, I didn't have a representation. I was just doing it on my own, marketing my work on Instagram. But you know what, Jennifer? Thank God for Instagram on that. Like, this is a love-hate relationship, as I had mentioned. If it weren't for Instagram, my art would not have been recognized at all. It would have been invisible to the world. 

So I was actually able to get my artwork onto really big influencer art sites, like ArtX Design, like Design Collector, like Tax Collection and they would post my artwork or I would advertise my artwork and just to get my art… And it worked. 

I got my first exhibition in New York at Guy Hefner Gallery because of that exposure on Instagram, because they're just scouring the internet for new artists. I mean, that was just serendipity, making the right moves, getting out there, meeting people. 

Eventually, the turning point for me, like after COVID, because COVID was like crazy, right? That everyone was under (lock down), but thank God, in Canada, it was really fine. The government was really taking care of everyone and we all felt safe and good. 

During the COVID crisis, I created the Mars House and Mars House became my Ryoanji Temple Garden architecture house. Like it was just my dream home that I wanted in a virtual reality, 3D, right? And I had the intention of building the physical house as well. 

I love design and architecture. So I really want to go into that - I really love it. So I went crazy - I did this huge inspiration to do it. I hired a 3D designer out of Argentina on Fiverr or one of those sites and sent him all of the designs and stuff. He did the 3D modeling for it and it was created within a couple of months. 

It was so fun. I had so much fun during COVID doing that. And my intention was to do something with it, create a brand for design and stuff like that with the furniture. I did all the furniture pieces and everything. 

And so, December of 2020 rolls around and I started to do some deep research into blockchain and Bitcoin. And I Googled blockchain for art. And then NFTs came up and I'm like, what is this? I did some research - my God, I'm like, I'm ready for this. 

Because I used to have anxiety every time I sent a WeTransfer of my artwork, you know, there's no providence, no one can prove that I did it, they could just claim it. But if it's on-chain, there you go, there's a difference. So I was so pleased to see NFTs existed as a technology, as blockchain. 

And so I enrolled in the early platforms of the time, SuperRare accepted me, Known Origin rejected me, unfortunately. But I was really proudly showing my pieces on SuperRare. And it was so different from what they had because I come from a fine art background. These guys are all crypto artists, like astronauts and crypto cyberpunk buildings and cute stuff, but not fine... In my world, not fine art. It’s a different kind of art. I don't want to poo poo on it, but it is different. 

So here I am bringing light art from the influence of James Turrell and Rothko and all of these things. They're like, who the heck is this? It was so me, it was so zen. And all of a sudden I'm like, wow, I'm studying the whole scenario. I'm like, you know what? NFTs are actually going to be 3D digital assets that are powered by AI. I knew that back then. I put it on CNBC saying that back in 2021. 

And I just thought, you know what? I have a house. It's a 3D model in UE Engine, UE Unreal Engine 5, and UE 4 at the time. I'm going to offer this house for sale as a digital asset. And it's going to be an artwork that you can actually go and visit like Ryoanji Temple Garden, but in VR. 

And so I listed it for sale on SuperRare and it sold for a massive like, record breaking sale, half a million, right? And that made the news around.

[36:49] Jennifer: That was that the turning point, you feel like? That was the Krista Kim…

[36:52] Krista: So I did a collaboration with Lanvin, the Haute Couture House back in 2018, that put me on the map. 

My dear friend Olivier Labidus was the creative director - we’re… amazing, he’s like my brother. And he chose five of my artworks for that collection. I flew to Paris, Place Vendôme, saw the show. I got beautiful gowns from that. It's amazing. And the bags and the sneakers, I've got the sneakers and handbags, so amazing. So that was my first foray of recognition in the art world. 

It was the Mars House that really sort of like, it brought a lot of attention to my practice and like really people understand my practice as an artist and understand what it is I'm doing, building worlds and creating this meditative experience as both physical and digital and experiential. 

And so now I’ve just been going through a lot of the research on Mars House, there's so many academic papers and citations on Mars House, especially in architecture. And it's really fascinating because that intersection of the metaverse and digital and wellness and architecture and technology, that intersection is new. And now my plan is to build the physical Mars House.

[38:28] Jennifer: You were talking about that earlier. So I want to go back a little bit because I'm assuming the inspiration for the Mars House is because you were in lockdown in Toronto and you couldn't go anywhere.

What I love about the Mars House is like, it feels like anybody's dream home because it's set in the mountains, first of all. And it's surrounded by glass walls, it's very minimalistic. And then the light is very soft at dusk.

It's such a beautiful, unique piece of property that's being sold now, as you mentioned, in the metaverse for over half a million. And at the time it made a record. And so what is your message in creating that Mars House?

[39:00] Krista: Well, first of all, that blockchain technology will be used for authenticating assets, and digital assets. I believe that it basically set that precedent for potentially buying real estate as NFTs. And actually, there is a website that does it - it’s proppy.ai I think - it's…

[39:25] Jennifer: Yes, I've heard of that, Proppy.

[39:27] Krista: They sell the actual ownership, deeds of real estate, real-life real estate through NFTs. It's basically the authenticity, the authentication, the verification of ownership of assets. And that's basically one of the very interesting aspects because it's also digital and physical, tying in the physical. 

And then of course, Mars House is a place of wellness, spirituality, and that you can actually visit in the virtual realm and that's something that we have to get used to because we are entering the digital and physical realm right now and AI is only going to accelerate that reality. 

So the duality of our lives is basically what Mars House represents now is that we are forming this digital physical civilization and how do we navigate it and what does that look like?

And I always think it should be like Kyoto. It should be calming. It should be wellness-focused and optimization-focused, optimizing our consciousness. It should not be distracting or extractive or predatory.

[40:40] Jennifer: The other thing that I wanted to ask you is that like most of your work, the design of the Mars House is creating this meditative and healing environment, but it's also complemented by the ambient music score composed by Jeff Schroeder from Smashing Pumpkins. So I was wondering if you could speak to what role does the sound play in shaping your artistic vision? 

Because I notice even in Continuum, the sound is tuned to a certain frequency. I don't know if it's tuned to the heart frequency or whatever frequency. I feel like when you hear the ambient music, it evokes a certain emotion.

[41:24] Krista: It's a heart frequency. So basically what I believe is because this basically is the reaction to our digital addiction to the screen. And it's a relentless distraction. And our brain is now programmed and different. If you look at young people and the configuration of their brain, it's way different. They're different animals actually. 

So because of that, I think that creating an immersive experience using and involving the senses can actually help us mitigate the negative effects of digital technology using the technology. 

Yes, going to nature, definitely go into nature and put your feet in the grass and be in a forest and breathe the fresh oxygen and listen to the birds. But not everyone can do that because we don't all live in rural areas, we live in the cities and suburbs.

So we need to create experiences that are accessible, that people can basically experience digitally. And I think that teaching people the visual language and normalizing the use of healing sound frequencies in our daily lives is only going to help us elevate our consciousness.

And it should just be a lifestyle practice for wellness now, just normalize it. And that's part of what we're doing is just to create beauty and normalize new ways of seeing art and experiencing art.

But immersive is very important and people crave it, people need it because our brains are different. We need to be immersed in it, you know? Otherwise, you know, it's different. We're not like previous generations who can sit still.

[43:16] Jennifer: So Krista, you talked a lot about abuse in social media algorithms. If you look at these social media platforms, once designed to connect us, right? So I'm an early user of Facebook. I never really got onto Instagram until I started this podcast, actually. That's how old school I am. 

But these platforms that were once designed as tools to connect us, and now it's becoming tools that's sewing division and it's hijacking our attention and it's also exploring our negativity bias. I was wondering, and also like social media, people often see metaverse as a tool for disconnection or distraction. 

And so I was wondering, how can we guide people towards a place of healing and a place of transformation? Because right now, if you look on social media, there's so much noise, there's so much clutter. So how do we move and create this paradigm shift from what it is today to a space of healing and transformation?

[44:23] Krista: Building awareness is so important, educating people, especially about data literacy is important. 

The reason why we are experiencing mental health issues is because we have predatory algorithms that are targeting us based on our personal data. And so if that in the wrong hands is such a terrible tool, it could be used to manipulate you, create wars, create conflict, all kinds of mental health issues, stress, anxiety.

So what we need to do is we need to start learning about how we can achieve data sovereignty, controlling our own data. So therefore we can curate what algorithms we want to curate, we want to see in our feeds. I mean, as a parent, I want to curate the algorithms for my kids. I want them all to be educational. I want them all to be based on what their strengths are, building from their strengths, building from their weaknesses as well, strengthening them.

And also I want to have amazing people like Maya Angelou. I want to have algorithms of positivity and beauty and enlightenment. And we can only achieve that if we have a level of data sovereignty and being able to choose the algorithm. 

So basically the way I see it is as an artist, I'm very, very sensitive to digital identity and of course digital IP. And when you look at the current state of AI, it's very centralized. And centralized AI is always going to exist. And in fact, we do need a lot of investment in that area and power generation, etc. They're great. 

But we need to also balance those scales - we need a balance of power. It's something that we all need, power to the people as well. We can't have it all centralized, especially if they own our data. 

So what we're going to have and what actually Emad Mostaque is working on this, he's the founder of Stability AI, genius. And I believe he's a real humanist, one of the humanist leaders of the AI movement. He left Stability.AI to pursue decentralized AI, because decentralized AI is about creating your own AI digital twin that lives on your devices with edge computing technology. 

We don't need huge servers for our own personal digital twin. We can have the computer power that's on our devices already, and it will live on our devices and collect our data, but protect our data and custody our data and manage our data for us. 

And we choose to share the data that we need medical data for our doctors, primary care, or we can educational data with our educators, with our parents, of course, the parents who control that flow of data for children. 

And of course, once we have that digital twin that's configured the way that you want to configure it, then you can also plug in the expertise of other digital twins - avatars. So if I want to plug into your expertise, Jennifer, I will, can plug into your AI and I can pay licensing fees for that. 

So as an artist, as a creative, anyone basically doing business with their AI digital twin, you can be licensed for your knowledge and your expertise. And I think that's a fair exchange instead of having all of your data or all of that centralized with one company. That doesn't make any sense. It doesn't represent a democracy.

We basically have to configure the AI so that it reflects democratic values and that we uphold and that we live by, especially under law, representing our individual rights. Well, we should also represent the fact that data sovereignty is a human right because our digital identity is inextricably tied with our physical identity. 

fSo digital identity is important, but I think we also need biometrics to prove who we are. Basically, Jennifer, I'm going to one day be so convincing as a deep fake, you would be doing a whole interview and not even know if you're talking to me or not. You won't know. 

But how do we know I'm speaking to you, Jennifer? Your biometrics. I think the heart signatures, the heartbeat, is a very important protocol that I'm collaborating with for an art installation called HeartSpace, but it's fascinating to me because this is the one biometric, biometric protocol that AI cannot hack. 

And why is that? It's because you need two things to happen. You need to have a beating heart with your own electromagnetic frequency, so you have to be alive. And when you register your ECG, you've got to use your index fingers or whatever fingers, and the skin has to touch the sensor. 

So if you're not a human being, and you're not going to be able to trigger the authentication of who you are. So it's very fascinating and it's also zero proof. So you're not collecting very private data the way that your retina does. 

Your retina gives away a lot of your bio data - you’ve got to prepare everybody. Retina gives away so much bio data for free that will be harvested and used against you. So please be careful with the retina. 

I think that the heart, heart signature is zero proof, it's non-invasive, and it's such a great technology. And Tenbeo, my collaborator, we're doing such incredible heart space installations around the world now. 

The biometric digital ID, data sovereignty, and decentralized AI, like protocols that will help us solve the mental health issue. Because the mental health issue is caused by a bombardment and constant exposure to toxic information, toxic algorithms. 

So if we end that and we only have positivity, elevating experiences that we curate using our decentralized protocols, that's where we achieve optimization of human potential of every human being, every child, is democratized. 

[50:07] Jennifer: I love that because it actually connects to the heart versus the machines, right? 

Our current algorithms is being generated by machines and actually even the platforms themselves, like the tech platforms themselves, don't really understand anymore how these algorithms work anymore. It's sometimes outside of their control. 

And to create this individual heartbeat signature, which is part of your work, what you did in the heart space at Art Dubai, just ties in directly... So we're going from the mind or artificial intelligence back to the heart, where our wisdom comes from. I just love that. 

[50:47] Krista: I love that as well. And here's the thing, we need proof of humanity and that's what it is. It's proof of humanity in our hearts. That's what makes us human. 

And we need to really lean into that as a civilization in the age of AI, lest we become overrun by the technologies. That's the next essential threat.

[51:08] Jennifer: So there's another thing, right? So we talk about the age of AI and the age of AGI, artificial general intelligence, but what we actually need more in the world is wisdom, right? 

And intelligence comes from the brain, but wisdom comes from the heart. There was an artist that had said, he said something that really resonated with me earlier this year. He said, not every wise person is educated, and not every educated person is wise. 

And I feel like in the age of AI, we need to bring more wisdom forward, not just intelligence, but more heart knowledge, not knowledge that we acquire from reading books, not just the rational knowledge, but we also need to bring that with the heart knowledge, right?

[52:00] Krista: There's a lot of wisdom in ancient books, like the Bhagavad Gita, like the Bible, like all of the religious texts, the Liad, like there's so many amazing classics that we need to bring back because the human condition hasn't changed. We're still the same, right? 

We still have the same human experiences, but we're definitely in a different world. And I think that people… especially with the digital twin, it would be wonderful to program that digital twin for a child with wisdom of Buddha, of like MLK, have these incredible mentors. 

So if you're thinking, I'm going through this really hard time, how should I frame this? Bam! That's what a beautiful song does to you when you're going through a heartbreak. That's what a beautiful poem does when you're going through a struggle. It's nice to have that guidance. 

And I think the digital tool, we need it. We need it so much because let me tell you, if we do not evolve as a human species and allow everyone across the board to do it in a democratized way, we will lose ourselves. It's something we need to do for ourselves.

[53:09] Jennifer: Yeah, and you and I have talked about creating digital avatars of Indigenous wisdom keepers. Yeah, I think it's a great idea - it's a great idea. 

And also just being able to connect to that wisdom when you're struggling, like when you're going through something at work or in life, being able to connect to that wisdom when you need it, it's going to be really valuable.

[53:33] Krista: Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. And actually, you know, the digital twin as well is an aggregate of all of your collective experiences. It's going to collect every information, every conversation, every experience that you've had in your life. 

And so when you leave the physical earth, the physical realm, crossover to the spiritual. Then that means this avatar is going to represent you. You could speak to your progeny. And if life experiences and stories and share beautiful family stories, legacy, that's a beautiful thing to be able to live forever through that form. It's beautiful.

[54:10] Jennifer: That's real longevity, not what we're trying to do. I know some people are just trying to purely, yeah, they're just trying to live forever or trying to extend lifespan, but it's not actually, I have a debate about that. 

And I feel like we should not just be simply trying to extend the lifespan. We should be actually bettering the human condition.

[54:34] Krista: Absolutely, I completely agree with you. Why would you want to live on earth if you're not expanding your mind and actually get it and making others' lives better? That's where true happiness lies, I believe.

[54:48] Jennifer: Absolutely, in service, and to love.

[54:54] Krista: And to love, yeah.

[54:55] Jennifer: Those are the wisdom from the Bhagavad Gita that I learned.

[54:58] Krista: Wonderful! That's wisdom. That's timeless - a thousand years from now, it’s still going to be spot on.

[55:07] Jennifer: Krista, you often talk about digital consciousness, and now I know that there's also talk about consciousness in the age of AI. So what is digital consciousness to you?

[55:18] Krista: Well, just the practice of elevating your own consciousness through the digital medium. That's basically what… how I’d frame it. 

What does it mean to be human in the digital age? The experience that we're having, where's the beauty in it? How can I create beauty digitally? We need to have that conversation and create that awareness and create an ecosystem or culture around it. 

And the reason why I brought it up was because back in 2010, for 10 years, digital was completely devoid of culture, any sort of compassion, any sense of real human connection. It was all fake. It was all very just monetarily driven and, you know, eyes are real estate, this kind of thing. 

It's caused an immense problem for younger generation, a crisis. We have the largest population of suicidal teens, especially girls from social media, depressed boys. Kids aren't falling in love and getting married anymore. People are completely separated because of algorithms and it's caused a huge crisis actually for the next generation. 

Addiction, it's an addiction, it's a drug. What we have in our hands is actually more potent than cocaine and it's designed that way intentionally. And so that's my digital consciousness for me is like, how can we not be stuck in that matrix? Okay, because it is a matrix. 

How can we have digital consciousness? How can we move forward as a human civilization and confront and adapt technology in a conscious way that elevates our consciousness? That's what it is. And that's how we should be reformatting how our relationship is with technology. It shouldn't just be as consumers. It should (also be very intentional.

[57:08] Jennifer: So by the way, I would love to, in raising my own digital consciousness, I would love to sit in one of your zen pods.

[57:15] Krista: Me too.

[57:19] Jennifer: Well, I saw quite a few online. I was like, these are beautiful places where I like to meditate. Absolutely. 

[57:26] Krista: Yes, exactly - me too. We're on the same wavelength.

[57:30] Jennifer: So in order for AI to ultimately serve humanity, serve human creativity and the spirit, instead of overshadowing it, what conditions do you think are necessary for the human to flourish in the age of AI? 

Because you had mentioned the example of your friend building a decentralized AI, but still we see a lot of centralized AI systems right now in development. It's being dominated by Microsoft, Meta, and Google. So what conditions are necessary for humans to flourish in the age of AI?

[58:07] Krista: I think that we need to tell the right stories. We have to start to create real human stories and narratives around the technology. I think right now is a time for art more than ever in creating those narratives, creating new stories, new storytelling to show people the future. 

I think right now movies, books, very important for educating and allowing people to understand the tech because it's new and people, it's so new and it's so disruptive. People are afraid and they don't know what to think of it. They don't see a future scenario where they're safe or that they feel like they're being served by the technology. 

Right now it feels more like they're going to lose their jobs, it's going to take over all the taxis, and it's going to be a world of robots where they will be completely displaced and not know what to do. 

And for their kids especially, parents are really concerned. What is the future workforce going to look like? Will my kid even be able to work or support a family? 

There's a lot of issues and people are ruminating and panicking about that because there's no future scenario right now that people can look at and say, okay, that's how it should look. So that's where right now art plays this important role. 

I've actually written a book, Jennifer, it's called Proof of Humanity and I want to launch it sometime like later this year or early next year. And so I'm currently editing it. I'll send you a few chapters so you can read over as well. It'd an honor for you to do that. 

But from that book, I would also love to write like an actual character-driven story, a hero's journey of a young person who is exposed to the world of AI, especially agentic AI, which is scary because AI will communicate directly. And we're left out of that conversation. What the hell are they saying? What are they requiring? 

So how can decentralized AI look like as a lifestyle, a wearable device, communicating part of you, your digital twin? How would your family also interact with this technology? How would parents manage the technology for their kids and what will their kids be able to do with this technology? What are those stories and scenarios? 

So that's the kind of thing we need to do right now. That's art. So we have to get to work. And artists, I'm calling on you to tell positive stories, research decentralized AI, digital literacy, and just get informed because this is the time where art really matters because we are the ones that are creating the future, basically. We're the ones that are creating a new scenario for the future and it has to be humane.

[60:41] Jennifer: Yeah, I love that because just through this conversation with you, I could visualize the future that you're trying to build, which is an agentic AI that is based on my own preferences. 

So I'm no longer being served certain ads or videos on YouTube that's being controlled by the machines, but I have the control in terms of the content that I would like to see and what my kids would like to see having a decentralized AI system where it's in a more democratic world of AI.

And also creating beauty. Like I think a lot of times in the digital space, I know you said the word beauty many times and like right now in the digital space, we don't have a lot of beauty, right? And that was the question that you asked back in 2014, in your techism manifesto. You're like, where's the beauty, right? Like we need to have beauty. We don't have a lot of beauty right now - there's a lot of ugliness. 

We're just being bombarded with lots of information and some misinformation as well. So we really need to build a beautiful future together in the digital age. Yeah.

[61:47] Krista: 100%. And it's not one person that's going to do that. It's a collective, collaborative process and everyone should be involved with that. I think that people should stop being so passive and just stop being passive consumers and start thinking about how they contribute to a better future.

[62:07] Jennifer:  Absolutely, I love it. We have a couple more minutes left. Can we do some rapid fire (questions)? Yeah, I know it's so fast. Yeah, time flies when I talk to you. We have just some rapid fire questions. So you can, you're free to answer first thing that comes to your mind. 

What is the purpose of an artist?

[62:28] Krista: Well, for me, for my personal purpose, it's basically to create beauty in the world, to be of service. So I think that art should be of service to people and it should help people see the world in a new way and to share a collective and unifying experience. And those are across any mediums, that's a generalized definition of what an artist should be.

[63:06] Jennifer:  Beautiful. I actually had this epiphany when I went to the Sting concert. And I just saw the power of art to unite people. 

We were in one big room together and people were just, it didn't matter which side of the political aisle you're on. It didn't matter which industry you came from, what you do for a living, what type of personality you have. But just the joy that it brought people in that moment and it really united us. 

And I felt this deep sense like in today's divided world, art really has the power to unite us. It really does, right? Because it shows us the deepest parts of our humanity, I think.

[63:50] Krista: That's why artists are always targeted by authoritarian regimes. And it's very important to support art and to recognize the importance of it. 

And I think it's so difficult to define art. It basically is seen as a luxury good, right, in the market. And I think that the real value of art, really, you're right, is to create that wonderful, unifying experience of humanity. And to be of service to humanity, because it is a service to do that. 

And you're right, it's important more than ever right now. You're right. You're so right. It's wonderful insight.

[64:35] Jennifer: Thank you. And Lisa has this question for you. What was the hardest part of your life and how did you overcome it?

[64:44] Krista: The hardest part of my life, probably when I went through my spiritual awakening during my divorce. That was the hardest period of my life. 

Yeah, but I learned a lot. And I wouldn't change that experience for the world because it made me who I am today. I had to go through that experience to become the mother I am today, the artist I am today. 

That whole process was meant to be and I had to go through it. So I'm thankful and that's how I see life. You go through hard periods, life has its ups and downs, but God always has a reason for everything and you just have to trust in it.

[65:28] Jennifer: Yeah, that's right. Divine faith, faith in the divine. I agree. Your favorite artist?

[65:35] Krista: My favorite artist is James Turrell. And it's such an honor because I'm actually in this part of the LACMA Museum collection. And when I spoke to the curator, Deandra Lawson, about the experience, said, yeah, it's amazing. 

The reason why I love California is because when I was studying art in Singapore, I was really into the California space and light movement. And James Turrell's in there, Robert Irwin, Mary Korris, all my favorite artists.

But of course, James Turrell, like for me, is like my rock star. And to be in the same collection with him, I said, it's such an honor. And she said, Krista, you are shoulder to shoulder with these artists now and you have your own voice, your own way. Yeah, that was just for me, like (an) amazing experience.

[66:25] Jennifer: One thing I've wanted to ask you, you've achieved amazing, incredible global success within the last 10 years since you launched yourself into the art world in 2014. And it's actually an extraordinary short amount of time for an artist to achieve this level of global success. What is the secret, do you think?

[66:48] Krista: Well, thank you. I actually don't like to think of myself in that way. I'm just doing my thing. I'm just really happy that my artwork resonates with people around the world and that it's a global thing as well, because I love people. 

I think that a spiritual practice is very important as an artist to always stay connected to the creator, to always be grateful, to be humble, to be grounded, and to be of service, to always.. 

You have a gift - being an artist is a gift. And so if you have a gift like this and you're an artist, that means you are obligated to be of service. That's what I believe. So be of service and the artistry will always stay true. 

And there's a vibration in the work, like there's a message in the work that will always resonate with humans. Because you're all about sharing this beauty with humanity. Spiritual practice is the first thing.

[67:48] Jennifer: It's interesting because it just made me think of a quote by Eckhart Tolle, who is one of my favorite contemporary spiritual teachers. He said, “all true artists, whether they know it or not, create from a place of inner stillness.” 

[68:06] Krista: Oh wow. That’s so… How profound. It's so simple and yet so profound. It's what I love. 

[68:14] Jennifer: Yeah, so like you said, it's your spirituality that you're able to channel the creation into the world.

[68:21] Krista: 100% - I am a vessel of creative energy that's just shining into the world. So it's through my eyes. I got the shining light and it's coming from here up here. And it's coming from the Creator. 

I come up with these ideas, they come from the East, they come from the Creator. And I can't take full credit for it. I'm just like channeling these ideas into the world. I'm just plugged in. And it's an honor to do that.

[68:48] Jennifer: So what is the change that you'd to see in the world over the next 10 years?

[68:54] Krista: Oh, I would like to see the democratization of the access for personal AI. I think that that's very important, like decentralization of AI. 

I want to see more data literacy in the world and more interest in data sovereignty. It will solve a lot of problems in our society. And I also think that media manipulation is going to be something that is going to be mitigated as well through that. 

I just want to see more truth and honor in the world because I don't see enough of it right now in the leadership. I just feel like truth and honor are so important and I want to see more of that.

[69:33] Jennifer:  That really resonated with me and what I'm going through right now. And it's interesting. I was watching this video with Scott Galloway. He was being, I think he was being interviewed on Fox News where he was saying, you know, we now we live in a society where we worship money and innovation. 

He was talking about Elon (Musk) and it was like, I was thinking this is where kind of capitalism failed at the end of the day, right? So it lifted people out of poverty, but (in) the end, the values that we ended up with are very different than the values that we started up with.

And it's upside down, because I think going back to when I grew up in the early 70s, we had honor. We honored our parents, our grandparents, our ancestors. And we didn't have a lot of money, right? But once like (we) started down the road of capitalism. I feel like we started worshipping materialism.

[70:36] Krista: I think it's social media. Because I actually think that older generations keep their word. And if you don't keep your word, then there is shame in that. People used to feel shame. Now people are shameless. (chuckles) Totally. People are shameless. 

That's an absolute breakdown of civilized society. If you cannot be honorable, if you're not sort of incentivized to be honorable because (if) the society doesn't hold you up to that standard, then you're living in a crazy chaotic world. We need those real basic foundational principles, right? 

Do what you say you're gonna do and think about humanity and be a good leader. Think about others, not about your own monetary gain. And greed is off the charts, like insane what's happening. 

I actually think that children know, I kind of feel like the younger generation's more clued into that because they see so much crap. People just like shamelessly just lying, not taking accountability. 

Like as a human being, I think we're born with those principles. I think that's in us innately to recognize when we're being lied to and what it feels like to lie and like to be shameless. I think we should bring back more standards of being principled. I think these basic principles are missing and it's because of social media.

[72:10] Jennifer:  Perfect segue to my next question. As a mother of teenagers, what advice do you have for parents who are struggling with kids that are addicted to technology?

[72:30] Krista: Modeling, when I think back on how my father, my parents raised me, it was all just modeling. 

Just be the person you want them to become and model the right behavior because they will follow it. They'll make mistakes. They'll basically come to their own conclusions. You know, make restrictions. Turn off the wifi after 8 or 9pm, whenever is the right time after homework is done.

Have those practices, but at the same time, like meditate in front of them. Do the actual spiritual practices in front of the kids is an everyday thing. I think that's so beneficial. I think that is a lifestyle, just being able to model that behavior and the wellness practices, especially because meditation is going to save us from the machine. It's our higher consciousness. 

That's what AI cannot take away from us and it cannot ever replicate that. A higher consciousness, our connection to the Creator and to one another, that's the ultimate power that we have as human beings and tap into that through meditation.

[73:33] Jennifer: And also like someone recently told me a very wise person. said, don't tell your kids what to do. Be the person you want them to be. So if you want them to be generous, be generous. If you want them to be happy, be happy. You know, don't tell them because they're not going to listen to you anyway. So true. 

[73:57] Krista: We were all teenagers.

[74:00] Jennifer: No, no, they don't listen to you.

[74:03] Krista: They do the opposite. Then they jump.

[74:06] Jennifer: Right, exactly. So what's next for you? I know you talked about the book, Proof of Humanity, but what else is up for you?

[74:13] Krista: HeartSpace. HeartSpace is now going to be exhibited at the MOCO Museum. And so we're preparing for that in Barcelona. And then we'll roll out more HeartSpace installations in London and Amsterdam at their locations. 

We are now allowing people to purchase their Heart Signature artwork, their unique heartbeat algorithm as an artwork, as a digital video artwork, which they can use on a limited edition Tenbeo device with the artwork featured on it, their unique heartbeat. They could verify your emails with that device. 

And Tenbeo is rolling out so many different products and new products that they're going to allow people to authenticate their ID using the heart signature.

[75:00] Jennifer: I love that. I love the heart signature. Awesome.

[75:05] Krista: Thank you. I’ll then invite you to the openings, you’ll love it.

[75:10] Jennifer: Thank you, Krista. We're now coming to the end of our interview. And as you know, we end every episode with a quote. And for this episode, we have a quote from by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, an Indian spiritual leader best known for introducing Transcendental Meditation (TM) to the world,

‍“Expansion of happiness is the purpose of creation.”

Thank you, Krista, for taking the time to join us today, sharing with us your journey as a digital artist to bring zen and mindfulness in the metaverse and servicing humanity through your work. Thank you so much.

[75:45] Krista: Thank you so much. It was such an honor to be here with you. I enjoyed it so much. Thank you.

[75:53] Jennifer: If this podcast has been beneficial or valuable to you, feel free to become a patron and support us on Patreon.com, that is P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com/TheFounderSpirit. 

As always, you can find us on Apple, Amazon and Spotify, as well as social media and our website at TheFounderSpirit.com. 

The Founder Spirit podcast is a partner of the Villars Institute, a nonprofit foundation focused on accelerating the transition to a net-zero (and nature-positive) economy and restoring planetary health. 

[76:32] END OF AUDIO