‍[00:02] Jennifer Wu: Hi everyone, thanks for listening to The Founder Spirit podcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Wu. In this podcast series, I interview exceptional individuals from all over the world with the founder spirit, ranging from social entrepreneurs, tech founders, to philanthropists, elite athletes, and more. Together, we'll uncover not only how they managed to succeed in facing multiple challenges, but also who they are as people and their human story. 

The following episode was recorded during the 2024 Villars Summit held by the Villars Institute, where I recorded several short interviews over a period of 3 days. The Founder Spirit Podcast is proud to be a partner of the Villars Institute, a nonprofit foundation focused on accelerating the transition to a net-zero (and nature-positive) economy and restoring planetary health.

“While traveling to the rural area, I came to know the women farmers, their frustrations, the workload and the immense domestic violence they're suffering from.”

“The water crisis makes her life more miserable. My vision is that every single women farmers across the globe should have a dignified life and have enough recognition for their work. And Bhungroo is helping them to achieve this status.” 

Joining us today is Trupti Jain, a social entrepreneur from India and co-founder of Naireeta Services, an organization at the forefront of climate resilience and sustainable agriculture. 

With a deep commitment to empowering marginalized women farmers, she pioneered the award-winning Bhungroo technology, a water management system that addresses drought and flood challenges. 

Just how did Trupti manage to bridge gender equity, environmental sustainability, and economic empowerment to transform the lives of rural communities in India? Well, let’s talk to her & find out.

Trupti, welcome to the Founder Spirit podcast and thank you for taking the time to spend with us today.

[02:08] Trupti Jain: Yeah, thank you, Jenny, for giving me this opportunity.

[02:12] Jennifer: Thank you. Growing up in Gujarat, what were some of your formative experiences that have impacted your life journey?

[02:19] Trupti: Oh, Gujarat is located on the equator, you know, so it is a very hot climate condition. In the summer, the maximum temperature goes from 47 degrees Celsius to 52 degrees Celsius.

And obviously, it is a semi-arid region and we have a very little period of time where rain comes. It is the monsoon season, so about 15 days to 45 days maximum, and not lasting more than one week at a stretch. 

So this is the very harsh climate conditions which I was born and brought up in. So I valued water right from the beginning. We know the value of water, although it is available free in my area, we know it is not aplenty. And we see that if we waste water, it will affect us and our future generations. 

So right from the beginning, we are very water-aware, water conservative. And in all our traditions, rituals, our day-to-day life, everything, it reflects this.

[03:19] Jennifer: Interesting because I grew up in China and in the traditional elementary school system, the first thing you learn in first grade was to conserve water and electricity, so that was very much ingrained in my mind. 

But since the age of 12, I've been living in the US and Europe - the water comes out of a tap and then we have plenty of rain and snow here. So we're very much unaware of the value of water and the scarcity of water in parts of the world. 

And in fact, I read today that 60% of the world's population actually live in very water stressed regions.

[03:57] Trupti: I think more than that, but yes…

[03:58] Jennifer: That's really interesting. And you're trained as an environmental engineer but what drew you to work in development?

[04:09] Trupti: So while I was in environmental engineering, at that time I (didn't) have any idea about social development sectors, frankly speaking.

And I lived in one city only, born and brought up in one city - I lived there, I worked there. I mean so my area of exposure is very limited within (a) 10 kilometer radius, so we had very limited visions. 

But when I started to work with one NGO, non-government organization, Ahmedabad-based, I started to travel to rural areas extensively for my research work. I was leading the very massive research projects, so it has a mass collection of data and some. So I travel to almost all the districts of the Gujarat state, I mean Gujarat state is like one country in Europe.

So I have identified the gender gap (in) the rural area. While traveling to the rural area, I came to know the women farmers, their frustrations, the workload and the immense domestic violence they're suffering from. All these kinds of the things made me not surprised but frustrated; I mean, why they are suffering. 

And the water crisis makes her life more miserable because they have to go fetch the drinking water four to six hours (in) a day. So that's why their children cannot go to school. And this water availability is… She's the last person to avail this water, this drinking water, so many times she could not have a proper bath or proper hygiene.

And also because they are traveling through the remote areas to fetch water, it's not very safe - so many young women lost things because of water. So I started to think over it and at that time, I thought that women farmers can play a major role to solve their problem.

[05:53] Jennifer: So that's what drew you to eventually to work for eight years at a local NGO? What were some of the lessons that you took away from working with these women?

[06:03] Trupti: There are many lessons which it may not have taught me in my 22 years of education. The right education, I got from there only - life lessons.

[06:13] Jennifer: Yeah, life lessons, exactly.

[06:14] Trupti: So first I thought that to solve the women's problems, women had to come forward. Now I'm thinking that no, it's not. It's all our joint responsibilities. But at that time, that was it. 

And then women are playing a major role in terms of conserving the environment. They are collecting firewood which is dropped only, they are not cutting trees, they are just collecting the firewood. And (for) every piece of the firewood, they have to walk a lot.

They are collecting the drinking water, so no one else valued water conservation other than her, because (if) you walk 8 hours a day in 45 degrees Celsius, you can imagine how they must value the water. Similarly, in the soil conditions and other things they are much (more) aware because they are working on agriculture as laborers, because farm is under the name of man. 

So over a period of time, we noticed that climate change also has a lot of impact on her life, that makes her life miserable. They are already suffering from problems and climate change has made them worse. 

So the occurrence of flood and drought, earlier I noticed it occurred in a 7-8 year period. Now it's occurring 3-4 years, and the most vulnerable is the child and women and they do not have health facilities, proper education. 

So those who are playing major roles in conserving the environment are suffering most because of climate change.

[07:36] Jennifer: Yeah. You had mentioned to me yesterday that you grew up in a household with two sisters, right? 

[07:44] Trupti: Yeah, so I mentioned those things because I didn't realize gender bias during my childhood. But when I went to the village area and I saw the differences. 

That first year, I decided to work for the social development sectors. And since then, (for) more than three decades I'm working on gender and climate change, in sustainable development.

[08:05] Jennifer: Very interesting. After eight years of working at the local NGO, you spent the next 12 years working in government. So what motivated you to work in politics coming from an NGO? Was there an opportunity that you saw? Was there something missing that you had experienced during the eight years of working at the NGO? 

[08:26] Trupti: So let me briefly explain to you about my work at NGOs. Because at the time of India the ‘92 and ‘93 amendment happened in the constitution of India which gives 33% reservations of the seats in all local bodies, in village, block, districts and the state (to women). 

So it has the potential to bring out women’s perspectives in the development sectors by the government. Immense - we can visualize, we can understand this one. But at the local level, the situation is totally different. Women don't know that they have the 33% reservations in the village Panchay (council). 

And what (happened is) that if the village president seat is reserved for women, then woman's husband is ruling. So that is a new term, Sarpanch Pati means village president's husband, as a new post, and women (don't) know that he's working on behalf of her. 

So I try to educate them, (make them) aware. Look, this is an opportunity - this is your right to participate in the political arena. And you can change your life, you can change your social status, and you can bring more inclusive perspectives in the development sector. 

So I worked for eight years with them and good success, many women contested in elections, in the general seat after the eight-year period. So then I decided if I want to work on a larger impact, the best is the government institutions. 

I started to work with the government, I headed different autonomous institutions in the government and trying to bring the policy levels changes. And some of the remarkable policy level changes are - first time our state has a gender action plan, state gender action plan; first time our state has a climate change department in all of India. 

So I headed institutions, Mahila Samakhya is women's equality, in which nearly 40,000 women come out from domestic violence and they have the federations and they are improving their living standards by working together, so many things…

[10:41] Jennifer: So it's interesting that you mentioned that because I also saw on LinkedIn you work as an external advisor to Arvind Limited, as an external member of the internal complaints committee in preventing sexual harassment at work, have you seen that the tide has changed or is that something that women in India are still struggling with both at the workplace and also at home?

[11:05] Trupti: Of course it is still continuing and it was earlier. 

But in 2013 the Supreme Court of India passed a remarkable judgment - the Visakha case is the Prevention of Sexual Harassment Act. So now it has the legal provisions that every corporate institution, educational institutions, private company, should have this internal complaint committee if they have their staff of more than 10. 

So I was part of the small committee of that Act. So now it's my responsibility to implement it properly because the Act has been done but nobody’s implementing this one. I don't have the right figure but I think only 4-5% of corporations have this kind of committee. 

So I volunteer to work with this big corporate PoSH (Prevention of Sexual Harassment) committee (as) an external member, so that I can pursue a safe working environment for womens in the corporate sector.

[12:04] Jennifer: Got it. And it's been 10 years. I hope things are moving forward finally. 

[12:10] Trupti: Yeah, yeah, some corporations really did very good work like Arvind. So they are really doing remarkable jobs and many corporations are coming up but many corporations (aren't) aware about it. It doesn't like they don't want to.

[12:22] Jennifer: But they're just not aware, they don’t know.

[12:23] Trupti: Yeah, they (aren't) aware about it. So is my responsibility being the formation of these ones to the right kind of implementation. So I'm voluntarily engaging with the various corporations.

[12:35] Jennifer: Yeah. So in 2017, Bhungroo, which means straw, a drinking straw in Gujarati, was invented by the co-founder of your social enterprise Naireeta Services. The BBC, they describe Bhungroo as the drinking straw for the earth. 

It works as a water management solution to protect smallholder farmers against droughts and flash floods. Can you tell us more concretely how Bhungroo works? I don't know if I'm pronouncing it properly.

[13:05] Trupti: Yeah, you perfected it.

[13:03] Jennifer: I can speak Gujarati.

[13:09] Trupti: Yeah, yeah, you can speak Gujarati. You should come. Yeah, I know because you have a Gujarati friend, right?

[13:14] Jennifer: So I have many, actually, I have many, yeah. They've only taught me bad words in Gujarati, I will tell you after the podcast. (chuckles)

[16:11] Trupti: Sure, yes. Bhungroo is a big straw because its main structure is (a) cylindrical pipe. So our rural women farmers know it as a Bhungroo, they are using the small cylindrical straw for igniting the firewood chula. So they are very familiar with that one. 

Now what happens is that my co-founder and my life partner, Biplab Paul, was working in the northern part of Gujarat which is adjacent to the border of Pakistan and India. It is a desert area. So because of the desertification and the (salinity), the upper layer of the land becomes impermeable. 

So that's why whatever (little) rain comes in the monsoon season, only land gets waterlogged because until it get evaporated, the farmer could not do anything on the land. And farmers have a very small piece of land, you know, because India is like China is very populous day by day and so that the pieces of land become smaller and smaller. 

So for water availability, the borewell is the only solution for them. And borewell is deeper and deeper, as we discussed, so they cannot afford it. And if they want to buy water, it costs them one-third of their yield, the harvesting yield. So it's not a profitable business for the farmers at all. So they have a piece of the land, it is uncultivable. 

They're migrating as urban construction labor, and they have all kinds of hazardous conditions. And most important is that they don't have the health facilities because they don't have any permanent residence in the urban area. And the child could not get education because they are moving.

And in 2001, a big earthquake happened in that area and they lost their livelihood. So after that they decided to enter in this journey of trial and error because they don't know where to go, what is the roadmap or something. So they are just studying their traditional matters of the conserving waters, they are studying what are the other sources 10 years or 20 years before, those kind of things.

So in that journey, the women farmers have very good traditional knowledge. My grandmother was taking the water from 40ft or 50ft. So why don't we inject water in a soil aquifer so that we can store the water in 80ft. So by trial and error, I think, of seven years of the efforts, this Bhungroo innovation came out, which helps to solve the local farmers problem. 

So we thought at that time that we were only solving this local community problem and we were happy. But in 2008, we won the World Bank Marketplace award and we were interviewed by many podcasts at that time. 

So our voice has reached remote villages and farmers are calling us. What is the solution? So at the time I realized that this is the solution at a global level, not only India. 

So to scale in the Indian context, we have registered this social enterprise, Naireeta Services Private Limited, in 2011. But because of some financial issues we started to work in 2013. Initially, we have invested our own money and our breakthrough happened in 2015. 

Right now, more than 5,000+ units are on the ground. We are working in 12 states of India, we have successfully piloted in Vietnam, Ghana, Bangladesh and Rwanda. And we have captured more than one hundred twenty-five thousand people. And yeah, that's our journey.

[16:54] Jennifer: I’d love to hear what it was like in the early days and some of the struggles that you've had along the way coming from politics.

[17:02] Trupti: Yes, yes. All my family members and all the people say, why did you leave your government job? I mean, you're so crazy. (chuckles) The initial two years of the time, we didn't get any money for ourselves. For two years, and you didn’t pay yourselves.

Yeah, almost. But we have faith because we have seen the smiles on the women farmer's face. It works, I mean Bhungroo works. So if they can smile, why not other farmers can smile in India? So we are confident and have faith, I'm frankly speaking. And that helps us to sustain in this field.

[17:41] Jennifer: That's beautiful, that's beautiful. Sometimes you don't necessarily get paid back in money. You get paid back in smiles for helping touch somebody’s soul.

[17:51] Trupti: Exactly. And you know that I graduated with an engineering background. So the smiling face of the community, that is the biggest thing we can sustain for more than three decades in this field.

[18:04] Jennifer: And especially in the hard times actually.

[18:06] Trupti: Almost all the hard times, at the very least. 

[18:10] Jennifer: And actually what's really interesting to me is throughout all the interviews that I've done with my guests and I guess maybe that's why I called it the founder spirit. But I only recently came to understand that in order to build something significant and meaningful and impactful in life, you need to have a very strong spiritual foundation. 

You call it faith and other people understand it as purpose, as passion. But for me, it means you need to have a very strong spiritual foundation to have meaning. And because the hard times will inevitably come and it's very difficult to keep going, to persevere. 

But do you feel like things are getting easier or do you feel like you're still going through an uphill battle?

[18:54] Trupti: I will give you the two answers. First is related to spirituality and second about (the) current status of the organization. 

Earlier, I was not in the development sector. What is that? I don't know. I just want to help the community. Similarly, I don't know much about spirituality, although India is very religious and I belong to the Jain community. 

But over a period of time, while working with the farmers, while working with the community, we realized that it's God's choice to make us work from them, and sometimes we got angry at God - why did you give us this kind of job? I mean to travel 45 degrees centigrade into the rural area, the people are not responding, the government is not listening. The innovation is not working as we (were) expecting - so many problems and just fighting with God. 

But now, I can tell you that I'm spiritually more awakened. I'm thanking God that they chose us for this kind of tough job. Otherwise, we could have wasted our human life without doing any sadhana, sadhana means practices. We are more spiritually uplifted because of work.

[20:17] Jennifer: Work is your sadhana.

[20:19] Trupti: Exactly. Work is my sadhana. So I said me and Biplab will never get retired because we are already retired. Retirement means what? We are doing (it) for the purpose, as you said, we are definitely a better human being and trying to become (even) better. 

We have achieved many successes during the past decade. We have a break even point in 2015, we are now financially self-reliant. I mean we are earning profits which are enough for us to sustain.

[20:48] Jennifer: Congratulations by the way. That's not easy to achieve.

[20:51] Trupti: Yeah, exactly. Because India startups, I think 96% of startups fail.

[20:59] Jennifer: So, God helps you too. (chuckles)

[21:00] Trupti: Exactly, I'm just going to say this sentence. Second is we just crossed US$1 million revenue. And third achievement is a strategic innovation - the women climate leader program. So I think we (have) not talked enough about how women co-owners of this Bhungroo change their life. 

So if we'll then come to their role in terms of scaling these solutions because millions of Bhungroo is required to improve the soil of the billions of hectares of land across the globe. So this scaling right now is nothing in terms of the demand.

But still we can say from zero to we are here right now.

[21:48] Jennifer: Yeah. You know, as you had mentioned, you're expanding overseas in Bangladesh, Vietnam, Ghana and Rwanda. So what is your vision going forward? Where would you like to be five to ten years from now?

[22:00] Trupti: My vision is that every single women farmers across the globe should have a dignified life and have enough recognition for their work. The women are not worried about the workplace, but ignorance, poor social status make them more vulnerable, so not hard work. 

And Bhungroo is helping them to achieve this status, because the technology is very cost effective if it works together with 5-6 farmers. Because water doesn't have boundaries - so all the water’s percolating, injecting through the Bhungroo and retained in the soil strata for the 6-7 acres of land. So it becomes more cost effective if 5-6 farmers can come together and own it. 

And then women came into the picture and men are very happy because they don't have to give the land to them. Only 3% of land is in the name of women, and that's why they are suffering from all kinds of domestic violence. 

So here, the two benefits have been achieved by the women farmers. One thing is that we train them about technology and maintenance, so they are very independent. And they become our marketing agents, they are spreading the word about Bhungroo to other peoples. So we don't have a marketing team at all right now. 

And the second major thing happens in the women because they are coming in the group, so now they are suffering less from domestic violence, because her husband understood that five other women are with her.

So not only (do) Bhungroo gives the economic benefit, their status has improved from laborers to farmers, self-employed. Their children get better education , they have health facilities, accessibility at the village level. 

But most important for the women is now the villagers started to give them respect, they recognize their knowledge. So that's why my rural women farmers are (saying) that this is an innovation for dignity. For them, it is the most important thing.

[24:02] Jennifer: Yeah. So you talked about three aspects from the impact that you've had, social, economic and environmental. 

So I came across, you had mentioned that there was a BBC video on Bhungroo. So we will make sure to have that in the show notes so that people can access it. It's a video of less than two minutes and it's so simple. I was really moved by it because it seemed like such a simple technology. We talk about artificial intelligence and we talk about deep tech these days and it's just such a simple way to actually help the local rural community to become more self-sufficient.

And I was also shocked to see at the beginning of the video, you see this semi-arid land and the land is all cracked and the water is not percolating through. So for 15-45 days of the year, they have the monsoon and the land is flooded and then the rest of the time the land is too dry to actually farm. 

And I also learned what a soil aquifer is. So for those people who are listening who don't know, it's a natural strata in the layer of the earth and that's where groundwater is stored, is that correct?

[25:11] Trupti: Yeah, perfect. the soil has different stratas - rocky strata, sandy stratas… For example, in rocky stratas, the water is not able to retain. But in sandy and clay strata, we can store water. So we are injecting the water, particularly in that strata only.

[25:31] Jennifer: Okay. So basically during the monsoon season, the water is collected by the Bhungroo, but then during the arid season that water can be released, that's being collected underground by the Bhungroo. Yes, that's what I understood.

[25:45] Trupti: That's perfect.

[25:48] Jennifer: Very simple. It's really simple. Yeah. So we do not need to look to AI to come up with a solution.

We often look to new technologies or new things for solutions. And I think we're not looking back in terms of the ancient knowledge that you shared that the women, they understood how their grandparents were extracting groundwater from the earth to irrigate the land. 

You're part of a panel tomorrow at the Vlar summit. It's called Designing Fresh Water's Future, which is very timely because March 22 is World Water Day. And how do you think systems leadership can change our perspective on how we value water? And how would that translate into climate mitigation and adaptation?

[26:41] Trupti: Going back to the simple, first thing that I found here. This is my first visit to Switzerland and thanks to Uplink for making this happen. And before this summit, I had traveled in Switzerland for three days and I could sense that Lake Leman (Lake Geneva) started from Geneva to here. So there's plenty of fresh water, even in the glaciers, 3,000 years old glaciers.

Still in Switzerland, people are more sensitive to wasting water. They are not polluting water, I can't see any kind of (single-use) plastics here. For that, it requires education. Not a formal one, but the proper education. 

Second thing is that attitude, attitude of every stakeholder - the politicians, the community, the NGO workers, the policymakers, the media, I mean those who can play whatever role to change. That attitude is very, very important. That's what we need right now on a large scale to save these scarce resources.

[27:42] Jennifer: So changing attitude means changing the mindset of the people. And actually I think what is missing in the climate mitigation or climate adaptation solution is that we're so focused on the science part, we're not focusing enough on the humanity part.

How can we as individuals help to change the attitude and the mindset of people?

[28:06] Trupti: You picked it the right point like adaptation and mitigations, and that's why implementation is difficult. 

I have trained nearly 2,500 illiterate rural women farmers as a climate leader during my more than three decades. So to change that mindset and attitude, sensitization is the most important thing. Mind change will happen automatically, if sensitization is done. 

[28:31] Jennifer: And I think creating awareness is the first step to changing mindset, because first you have to be aware that there's a problem and there's a potential solution or solutions.

[28:43] Trupti: So yeah, steps are like that awareness, then education. Education means, what is happening in this area and what are the alternatives and what is happening in other parts of the world. That is education, sensitization is a different thing.

[28:58] Jennifer: Can you explain that a little bit more? What do you mean by sensitization?

[29:02] Trupti: While we have innovated Bhungroo? We want to help them to improve their livelihood, and it increased their income. 

So when we got awarded by the UNFCC, United Nations Framework Conventions on Climate Change, that team came to our field area. So then this person, he asked the people of the lady through the Samkarn that what is the most important impact in your life because of the Bhungroo. And at that time she said we got dignity, we got a dignified life. 

So I was so surprised, I thought this economic empowerment, like they are paying back their debt, now they are constructing their house, that is the most important impact. At that moment, I became sensitized about their social status, the women's social status. I was aware that social status is poor, but I learned how much it’s important for her through these things.

[30:02] Jennifer: It's about the depth of the impact.

[30:04] Trupti: So that is an example of sensitizations. And from that onwards, I'm working to provide them with a dignified life. That's what I'm telling you, not (just) for the economic status.

[30:14] Jennifer: Right because originally you thought you would help them improve their livelihood, but in the process, it's not just the economic benefit, but actually you're uplifting the people that you work with - that's very nice. 

Well, thank you for sharing your journey with us, thank you for taking the time.

[30:31] Trupti: I appreciate it. Thank you, Jenny, for giving me this opportunity.

[30:35] Jennifer: If this podcast has been beneficial or valuable to you, feel free to become a patron and support us on Patreon.com, that is P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com/TheFounderSpirit. 

As always, you can find us on Apple, Amazon and Spotify, as well as social media and our website at TheFounderSpirit.com. 

The Founder Spirit podcast is a partner of the Villars Institute, a nonprofit foundation focused on accelerating the transition to a net-zero economy and restoring planetary health. 

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